LISTEN: Candis Hunter on turning science in action

Transcript 

Brian Bienkowski

All right. I am now joined by Dr. Candis Hunter. Candis, how are you doing today?

Candis Hunter

I'm doing well. How about you?

Brian Bienkowski

I'm doing excellent. It's it's rainy and gross outside but it's lovely indoors here speaking with you. And where are you today?

Candis Hunter

I am in the Atlanta metropolitan area and Peachtree corners.

Brian Bienkowski

Excellent. Very cool. We were there for a work trip a couple years back. And I had a really good time down there. The traffic maybe not so much. But once we got into the city, I really enjoyed it.

Candis Hunter

That's awesome. Yeah, the traffic here can be crazy. But at times when it dies down. It's much more pleasant.

Brian Bienkowski

I bet, I bet. So Candis, you grew up not too far from there. Maybe this is some of my northern ignorance, but you grew up in Baton Rouge. So tell me about your upbringing over there.

Candis Hunter

Yes, so I grew up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, which is a major college town. It's home to Louisiana State University and Southern University. And so growing up there I have many memories of going to Southern University football games, and enjoying the halftime shows in which the Southern University marching band which is also known as the human jukebox. They put on a world-class performance of wonderful music and dance moves. I think some of the fondest memories I have of growing up in Baton Rouge were on the weekends in which those times were usually filled with church activities, with sports, with really good food. In particular on Sundays, I remember looking forward to my late great uncle Julius who would make gumbo or my dad frying cat fish and other meals with my family. I'll also say that Baton Rouge it's home to several bodies of water, like the LSU lakes, the Blue Bonnet swamp, Alligator Bayou and the Mississippi River. And I think growing up Alligator Bayou in Baton Rouge was particularly integral to forming my connection to environment and health. And when I was in high school, we would do a water quality testing of Alligator Bayou and this was followed by canoeing on on the bayou. So that was some of my fondest memories. And then lastly, I'll just mention that Baton Rouge. It borders the Mississippi River or the Mississippi River borders the East portion of Baton Rouge. And the city is home to many industries including petrochemical companies. And there is this 85-mile stretch between Baton Rouge and New Orleans along the Mississippi River where there are over 150 petrochemical facilities. I think I later learned that this area is called Cancer Alley due to the fact that the area has a 95% higher risk of cancer due to air pollution compared to other parts of the country. But overall Baton Rouge is my hometown, loved growing up there and move to Atlanta to go to school.

Brian Bienkowski

And you don't have an accent. And again, Pardon my ignorance, but there's a Louisiana accent, right?

Candis Hunter

Yes, I think it varies on what part of Louisiana folks are from so when I'm around my family, I think it might come out, smaller accent might come out more but depending on if you're from southern Louisiana and northern Louisiana and New Orleans in particular, I think has a distinct accent. It varies. But I don't think I've completely completely picked it up. But when I'm around my family it might come out a little bit.

Brian Bienkowski

That's funny. I'm in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and where we're at is very close to the Canadian border. So I get told a lot that it's I have Canadian accent. And if you go further west, in the up, it's kind of more of Wisconsin, a little more of a I'm not going to try to imitate it because I don't want to offend folks, but a little more of a long A's, you know, stuff like that. So it is interesting geographic language differences. So Candace, I want to talk about there's been a couple of fellows on the podcast that went to historically Black colleges and I'm always curious about this because it seems like kind of a... for them anyway, it's been a pivotal point in their professional and kind of personal growth. So you went to a historically Black college, Spelman College, can you talk about this experience, how it may have shaped you, and especially after attending schools as a child that were largely majority white?

Candis Hunter

Yes, absolutely. So Spelman was integral to forming my identity as a Black woman, a scholar, and a global citizen. I really think going to Spelman gave me the supportive environment that I needed to feel truly confident in my own skin and abilities. I think Spelman also helped to continue to foster a spirit of academic excellence and service to my community in which my parents had already instilled in me but I think being surrounded by so much Black excellence, concentrated in one area, with not only Spelman College, but the entire Atlanta University Center, which includes Spelman College, Morehouse College, Clark, Atlanta University and Morehouse School of Medicine just being in that environment. It really inspired me to know my history, and it also helped me to pursue a career of public service with a strong sense of purpose and passion. And my experience at Spelman was also coupled with my time as a ministry assistant at Lighthouse, the Catholic students Centerin the Atlanta University Center, where I was able to apply my faith and action and some of the the things I learned in my coursework, to activities in the community. I'll also share while I was at Spelman, I felt like I received a really, really rigorous STEM education, I was a chemistry major and a math minor. And I had many, many, many challenging courses. But I also had a very supportive environment of professors and faculty and, and community that wanted me to succeed, which I think really, really helped for my development. It was also a time at Spelman, where I was introduced to many Black female scholars in history for the first time through our African diaspora in the world course. And that helped me to better contextualize some of my science courses that I was taking with applying to social action. I think on top of that, my experience at Spelman was was so integral because I gained lifelong friendships through my experience there, it just had such an impact on me that I regularly mentor Spelman students, and I will continuously give back to to the school because it just poured so much into me.

Brian Bienkowski

That's excellent. And you mentioned black female scholars, and you were the first African American to receive a PhD in environmental health sciences from Emory University. Now I know, I shouldn't be shocked, or, uh, but these these stats always kind of blow me back because you are a young woman. So it seems like this should have happened a long time ago. So tell me about that and what it meant to you.

Candis Hunter

Yeah, so I will first start off with the fact that although I was the first Black graduate of the program, I'm happy to share that I was not the last. And so I'm really excited for the recent graduates of color, the current students and incoming students, all of the students there on what they've done and what they will continue to do to impact the Environmental Public Health build. When I first started the doctoral program, there were no doctoral students or faculty that looked like me or who had graduated from an HBCU. So it was really critical to me to try to create a pathway for those who would come behind me who had diverse lived experiences. I think being the first or the only at anything, there's always this uncertainty of how will I navigate things? And what if I fail, but I'm happy to say that I made it through the program, by the grace of God. And I'm just really particularly appreciative of my family and friends, and the faculty and staff there, and my work supervisors and mentors and others who, who really supported me throughout that process, I think, from being the first it was now really important for me to cheer on and encourage current and prospective students who apply there and just kind of serve as a resource as needed, and hopefully mentor as needed. So it was an important experience for me. But I'm glad to say even though it was the first doctoral student who graduated, I'm not the last and there will be many to come.

Brian Bienkowski

I think your point is such a good one, that it's - and I don't want to put words in your mouth- but it's a really big accomplishment. But also, you're forced to be a trailblazer on top of what's already a really hard program. I'm sure you had plenty going on. Not to mention thinking maybe this was in the back your mind or just at the end that you also had to set a path for others. So congratulations on that. I mean, I think it's, it's wonderful, but also speaks to, we have a lot of work to do. And I'm glad to hear that you're not the last. So Candis, I've been asking everybody what is the defining moment or event that shaped your identity up to this point?

Candis Hunter

Yes, it's hard to think of just one. But I think a defining moment I'd like to highlight was when I dropped out of a Ph. D. program right after I graduated from Spelman College, I was in a biomedical engineering Ph. D program. And I ended up dropping out. And it was really difficult for me just quitting because, but most of my life, being a studious student with excellent grades really helped to shape my identity and who I was. And after not doing well in several my courses in that doctoral program, and really just not connecting with some of the course material, just really made me feel like a failure, and that I let my myself, my family, my family down. However, I will say that experience taught me a key portion of my identity is not in what I would do, but just being myself and that the experience of kind of I don't even want to call it failing, but going on to something else was knowing that I didn't have to perform, I could just be - which opened up space for me to go into public health. And I think little did I know that using that experience, taught me lessons about discernment and forgiveness, and that my identity was not just centered on the type of education that I got. It also gave me the courage to try out new and different experiences. So once I left that, that program, I had lots of different internships, I did one with private industry with a beer company, I worked at a university, I worked in government. And so just knowing that I could try something new gave me courage to want to explore other areas. And that helped me get into public health. And it also helped me to shape my identity by really knowing that I could pursue a career path that didn't necessarily mean that make the most money, but that was more shaped by my values and a desire to serve. And so when I did start a Ph. D program in environmental health sciences, almost eight years later, which I we just talked, I finished and graduated. I think I had more competence when I started that PhD program to pursue a topic that was really interesting to me. And also, I think I had a stronger sense of self by initially dropping out of a Ph. D. program prior.

Brian Bienkowski

I really appreciate that answer. And I think it speaks to two things. One is we offer so much grace to others, that we don't offer to ourselves, that we are often so hard on ourselves, I'm sure if you would have had a friend or family member at that time that that dropped out or switched, you would have said, "you know, follow your path," you would have offered them a lot of grace, but with ourselves, we're so hard on ourselves. And the second point is the idea that it's okay to kind of search a little bit and kind of bump into the guardrails and figure out what we what we want to do. I think I didn't get into journalism until my late 20s, I was at a factory cutting steel for a living of all things and it takes it takes a while to get there and I think the the the the just just making it there is the important part whenever that happens. So we should have switched those questions. So there was a cliffhanger whether or not you Wwhether or not you finished but of course, of course you did that at Emory. So when you completed your PhD, you also became a mother and all of this while working at the CDC. So I want to ask you how becoming a mother has changed you, and whether you view your role in Public Health Service differently because of it.

Candis Hunter

Yes, absolutely. I think becoming a mother, particularly while I was working and completing my doctorate really broadened my perspective on what it means to serve and what it means to give up oneself. I think, as a public health practitioner, and as a mother, I have a strong sense of urgency to improve the social determinants of health, not only for my own children, but I think for everyone's children, for all of us, because I personally see how these social determinants of health are impacting my own children, my community and others, it gives me a stronger sense of urgency to want to make a change. I think also becoming a mother has really helped me think more about what will my legacy be in environmental health? And what are the experiences and lessons that I want my daughters to have related to the environment and health? I think it's also even strengthened my view, I think, was already there of how important it is to support and mentor public health students and practitioners. Just providing an environment of encouragement and support, I think it's really important. And I think being a mom has has influenced my view on that even more.

Brian Bienkowski

So usually, I save a lot of the fun questions for the end. But as a farmer here in the North, I have to ask. You are a gardener which, which I love. We share this we share this love. So when did this love of growing things come into your life? And what is your what are a couple of things that you really like to grow?

Candis Hunter

So starting a garden was on my "before 30" bucket list. I didn't grow up gardening, but I think I've always enjoyed planning and cultivating things and watching them grow, whether it be a friendship, or an event that I plan or training for a long distance race, I always kind of enjoyed the process and challenges of facilitating and change and really watching the fruits of that growth. And so some of my favorite things to grow right now are cucumbers, green beans, tomatoes, and okra. And during the pandemic, I started to cultivate blueberries, raspberries and blackberries. And all the birds and squirrels and other animals are really loving the fruits right now, I see every day just bites of them on the ground. But I'll also say that my favorite flower to grow is the sunflower, not only because yellow is my favorite color, but sunflowers are beautiful and cheerful. And even some studies have indicated that sunflowers may be good bio remediators, or they could absorb toxins such as lead and cadmium from the soil.

Brian Bienkowski

That leads me into my next question very nicely. But I wanted to first say if you ever get your hands on Transylvanian giant seeds, so my wife has grown those at the farm, those are a sunflower. And they are boy, they have to be 20 feet tall. They are these beautiful, huge sunflowers that if they grow to maturity are towering over the rest of the garden and are just really beautiful, really beautiful flower. So speaking of remediating the soil, so I know you're part of an effort to protect people from lead in their soil, something I don't think most of us think about as an exposure out when we think about lead. So can you talk about this work and why it's important to test soil for lead?

Candis Hunter

Sure. So my, my doctoral research focused on behaviors that community gardeners can implement to reduce their exposures to heavy metal soil contaminants, such as lead. And so some of these behaviors, as you mentioned, include soil testing, and that's really to understand the concentration of different contaminants in the soil. But I also looked at other behaviors such as composting or adding soil amendments that are rich in organic matter. And that's important for reducing exposure to toxins because some amendments such as phosphate can bind to lead and it can make it less bioavailable to plants. I also looked at a behavior like mulching, so applying mulch can reduce windblown dust which can prevent contaminated soil from being dispersed elsewhere and it minimizes the soil splashback on the leaves. And then finally also looked at hygiene habits such as washing hands and produce as well as wearing gloves which can minimize the amount of soil that could come into contact with gardeners and consumers and other habits like leaving gardening shoes and clothes and tools outdoors is a recommended practice to reduce exposure to lead in the soil so that the soil is not accidentally brought into the home. So again, soil testing in combination with other best practices can help reduce exposures to heavy metals like lead in soils. And this is really important in areas where there may have been industrial activities or the application of pesticides, or deposits from leaded gasoline, or older buildings where there's been lead-based paint that could chip off and get into the soil. I think it's really important to test soil and do these and other behaviors. Because we know that children may be at increased risk to soil contaminant exposure, because they tend to put their hands in their mouths or toys in their mouths, and as a result can ingest, potentially ingest, contaminated soil and also breathe in lead contaminated soil particles. And we know that even low levels of lead in the blood can cause developmental delays and neurological damage. So this primary prevention of, you know, removing lead from the soil, detecting it, doing behaviors to reduce exposure is really, really important to me.

Brian Bienkowski

And if somebody wants to start a community garden and is in a city and is just a normal, a normal person, how would they go about getting their their soil tested?

Candis Hunter

Yeah, that's a great question. So many of the, the extension services at the agricultural schools will provide soil testing. I think a lot of times people when they think of testing their soil, though, they want to test for nutrients, which is, which is important. But those extension offices can also offer testing for heavy metal contaminants like lead, there's a whole panel of contaminants that can be tested. So the extension offices is a resource. Some private industries do offer soil testing, it might be a little bit more expensive going that route, but definitely the County Extension offices can can offer that service.

Brian Bienkowski

Excellent. Thank you for that. And now switching to another ubiquitous contamination problem we have. So you are a co-founder and a member of a microplastics working group for the CDC. And we keep hearing about the ubiquity of plastics, but can you talk about the ways that the microplastic problem is particularly bad for communities of color and poor communities?

Candis Hunter

Yes, so microplastics are plastic pieces less than five milliliters long, and eventually plastics will break down into microplastics. Microplastics can also be created directly through synthetic textiles or personal care products. And due to the small size of these plastic particles, they are easily transported through air and water. And some studies have shown that harmful chemicals can adhere to the microplastics or leach from the microplastics. And so plastics and subsequently microplastics disproportionately impact people with lower incomes, and people from racial and ethnic minority groups. And this is throughout the plastics lifecycle, all the way from producing the plastics to disposal. These communities or are more likely to live near the industries where, where the plastics are produced and exposed up or disposed of. And so I mentioned Cancer Alley earlier, and my home state of Louisiana, where many plastics are produced and impact the air quality and health that those communities nearby, which are often communities of color. We also know that microplastic pollution affects the marine environment and local food sources. And that can have a negative impact on the health and economic and cultural impacts to the communities that rely on those food sources. So it's a it's a major, major problem that hopefully, different groups are trying to address, but definitely disproportionately impacts community of communities of color and poor, poor communities.

Brian Bienkowski

I'm really glad you brought up the lifecycle because I think a lot of people think of plastics, and we think of the beach where we see some some discarded plastics or small pellets and things like that. But it really starts in refineries and fossil fuel production and petrochemical plants and cancer alley along the Gulf Coast in Houston. Now, in the Ohio River Valley, there's a petrochemical expansion. So it really is this full lifecycle that has kind of this cascading impacts of environmental harm and insults to communities. So I appreciate that that perspective. So Candis, we've been working on an essay with you, and you have this term that's new to me called the implementation science. So it's a fascinating concept, it seems like a reason for hope. So can you explain to me what implementation science is and why you think it's so important?

Candis Hunter

Yes. So in simple terms, implementation science is studying how different research results that have been found to be effective, can become a part of widespread practices and policies. And so there are these different frameworks that underlie implementation science. But some of the key concepts include looking at access, adoption use and fidelity, which means the adherence to the original application of an intervention. And so just to give an example, you know, earlier I mentioned some best practices to reduce exposures to heavy metals in soils, like soil testing, and composting. And so if we look at an implementation science approach, this would really focus on after many studies have been conducted and shown that, you know, soil testing is an effective practice, it's evidence-based, implementation science would further look at how can we adopt this practice of soil testing in different communities? What are some of the barriers and facilitators to adopting a soil testing policy? implementation science could also be a framework to look at, How can we make these policies more sustainable in different settings? And so I think implementation science just really offers a framework to better connect research to practice and also going from knowledge to action so that the practices that we do find that are effective and are really useful and evidence-based can be applied to multiple community settings.

Brian Bienkowski

I selfishly like to think that that media and journalism plays a role in that bridge and taking science out of the journals and speaking to folks like yourselves, and then getting that in front of people. So this kind of this, this, this momentum that starts in the journal or starts in the lab, reaches people who have the power to put these into practice. So

Candis Hunter

I absolutely agree with that.

Brian Bienkowski

Good. I'm glad you do. And of course, it's a changing now where scientists can own their message in places like Agents of Change. So it's all kind of as long as we're all rowing in the same direction. Well, thank you for explaining that. And Candis, I just want to hear what your what are you optimistic about it, you're working on some issues. And you know, you talked about lead in soil, microplastics. These can be overwhelming to a lot of folks when we read about this. So what are you optimistic about?

Candis Hunter

I am really optimistic about the growing interest across the government, as well as other sectors, regarding health equity and environmental justice. I feel like there's been a renewed passion in these areas, I will say I'm cautiously optimistic that the policies and practices and extensive amount of funding that's being put into place to address address health equity and environmental justice issues, will really result in some sustainable changes in the long term. And I really think it's an exciting time. For those who are interested in environmental justice, whether you know, we're new to the field or those who've been working it in it for a long time. I think it's a really exciting time because there's so much interest and funding and focus on this area right now.

Brian Bienkowski

And before we wrap up here, I have three fun, I hope they're fun, rapid-fire questions. And then of course, my last question. So here you can just answer with one word or a phrase. Coffee or tea?

Candis Hunter

Coffee.

Brian Bienkowski

That was it was an aggressive hahaha, I'm with you. If I had a day all to myself, I would

Candis Hunter

Rest

Brian Bienkowski

If I could vacation anywhere, it would be:

Candis Hunter

Ghana

Brian Bienkowski

Ghana, have you ever been?

Candis Hunter

I have not but I'm planning to go next year for a milestone birthday. So

Brian Bienkowski

that is, that is so fun. That is That is excellent. And Candis, what is the last book you read for fun? Of course, you can give me more than a word or a phrase here.

Candis Hunter

Yeah, so the last book. I was gonna say the last one was probably a children's book I've read but mine was my daughter's. But the last book that I read for fun for myself, was "Rest as resistance: a manifesto" by Tricia Hersey. The book is all about the importance of rest as a human right. And really pushing back against this grind culture that places our value on what we produce and what we could do. It was just a really great book and just reminded me, reminded me of the importance of rest and relaxation, and how important that is for imagination and regeneration and just understanding more about myself and others. So it's a great book.

Brian Bienkowski

I'm gonna check that out. Because when I asked you what you're optimistic about, this is one of the areas that I'm optimistic about. Last night, for example, I was watching the NBA Playoffs, and there was a commercial with players featured talking about mental health. And it wasn't specific to rest, but it was what's traditionally I would say, a, you know, kind of a macho sport or whatever. And they were talking about the importance of listening to your brain and taking time to yourself and things and, and books like this. And this is growing movement to realize that we don't need to be connected, and sending emails at all hours and working ourselves to the bone. So I'm going to check that book out. And one of these days, I'm going to put a compilation of all the wonderful fellows book suggestions out.

Candis Hunter

that would be great. We could start a book club. Yeah.

Brian Bienkowski

That's right. Well, Candis, this has been so fun to learn more about you and your work. I've really enjoyed working with you in this fellowship. And thank you so much for taking time today.

Candis Hunter

Thank you for the opportunity to share more about my work and research and thank you for Agents of Change in Environmental Justice.

Brian Bienkowski

All right, that's all for this week. folks. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Candis. If you enjoy this podcast visit agentsofchangeinj.org there you can sign up for our monthly newsletter and you can click the donate button and support us. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram and please follow us on Spotify, iTunes or Stitcher you can listen to this and all past episodes.